U in the Ring

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UVic people are very functional people you know are ready to do field work and stuff like that a lot of like granola core like people are dressing like they're gonna go hiking even if they aren't Patagonia clothes are really popular a lot more like outdoorsy stuff. Definitely that outdoor energy, you know, Blundstones, Birkenstocks. I feel like the surfer camper clothing where it's a lot of fleeces, Blundstonesand kind of like hiking gear thrifted style the like big skater pants look, vintage baggy clothes going on a lot of tiny hats. It's just like a pretty basic outfit there in business flannel like Berta boy, definitely in business. Victoria kind of has the stereotype of being a chill hippie and outdoorsy City. I went around campus to interview students on what fashion trends they noticed specific to Victoria, and it was funny to hear how similar the answers were. Vancouver Island is a beautiful place to live. So it makes sense that everyone is always ready to go on a hike and explore nature. One of the many ways individuals express themselves is through fashion. However, it is also very common for people to just wear what is trending. This is heavily influenced by pop culture and evolves over time. In most cases, the general population ends up wearing similar things depending on where they live. When I was brainstorming topics for this episode, I went to some of my friends to see if they had any ideas. They started talking about how queer fashion has become trendy as of late, especially because of social media like tick tock. And as a result, sometimes it's hard to tell if someone is straight or queer, because the very fashion styles that are common in the queer community are now popular and worn by people outside of this community. This made me think about the significance of fashion as a means of identity and led me to investigate queerness through the lens of fashion, why are clothes gendered? Why do some clothing items lead people to make assumptions about a person's identity? Let's talk about that.

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My name is Zia Regino, and I'm your host for U in the Ring, a podcast that goes deep into issues at the University of Victoria.

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ÍY SCACEL, it's Nick here, and you're listening to CFUV. One Oh, 1.9 FM broadcasting from the traditional territories of the Songhees, Esquimalt and WSÁNEĆ people.

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This is a podcast focused on UVic. I wanted to make sure to include voices of individuals who are familiar with Victoria and the university. So I interviewed a few friends of mine. My name is Rachel, I use they them pronouns. I'm a student here at UVic. I'm in my second year of Geography and Environmental Studies. And yeah, I'm super stoked to be here. Hi, I'm Lindsay. I also go by they them pronouns. And I study at UVic. I'm doing political science and gender studies as a double major. And yeah, I'm super excited.

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And because this is an episode about fashion, I obviously has asked them to describe what they were wearing. I'm wearing fur as well, my necklaces. Let me tell you it was a struggle because all my necklaces disappeared. And so I'm wearing this butterfly necklace that I never wear that my ex girlfriend gave me. And I'm wearing this chain, which I did end up finding thank God. And then I'm not I'm wearing a Harley Davidson t shirt from Sturgis.

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And underneath that I'm wearing a grey turtleneck that I wish I wasn't wearing because it's really hot in here.

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And then which I did get worried about.

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And then I'm wearing a miniskirt that my sister gave me which was crazy if anyone knows my sister because I've never seen them wear a skirt in their entire life. And I'm wearing sheer tights and two pairs of socks guys, not one but two because over top of them I'm wearing combat boots which give me hella blisters, and they have steel toes in them. So if anyone wants to crush my toes, they can not thinking because they're still tough.

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And then

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I'm wearing really old Victoria's Secret underwear. Okay, that's all pack. Yeah. Good rundown. Starting off with my crusty vans that I got in Edmonton after tree planting. They've been through lat I very consistently wear one pair of shoes for literally everything in my life so they're already getting holes in them. And I'm wearing black socks that I probably stole from my brother. And I'm wearing these like black scrubs that I got from this very super underground place called Valley village. You probably don't know it, but I'm really really really hard to come by moving up. I'm wearing a long sleeve just like black kind of shirt. It was from a Dan

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Competition and like overtop of that I've got this really awesome like orange and red dyed shirt made by somebody like super locally and it's like all reused materials so like that's super awesome i love it so much kind of got some bit of patchwork on it got my Casio watch that I never leave the house without if I do I break down internally got my rings on necklace chain, my grandmother's chain. Then I've got my earrings that I just made the other day with my friend, my other little scorpions and my beanie, which you will not see my head ever I have a beanie for every single occasion. It's always on there. Whenever I see someone wearing something cool, I always wondered the extent to which the outfit was planned or if it was something that was just thrown together. In regards to queer style. Historically, certain items of clothing were used as signaling to other queer people, especially where it wasn't safe to be openly queer.

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In a book titled queer style, where Adam Zeki and Vicki caminos dress frames the body, it expresses who we are and who we are not as a means of expressing identity and a way of interacting and belonging to a particular culture. The adoption of what is considered masculine or feminine clothing is a means of communicating membership of a particular group or the affirmation or rejection of an assigned rather than chosen gendered. In this way, clothes are given value as a means of making a statement about individuality and a person's place in society. Clothes also play an important part in proclaiming a person's sexual and gender identity. If clothing is a form of nonverbal and visual codes, which communicates certain characteristics or facts about the wearer, then the dress choices of alternative genders within a culture demonstrate a desire to be seen as someone else.

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For those in the queer community style isn't just whether or not you look aesthetically good. Clothes play an important role in how someone feels, especially for those who weren't always able to wear what they felt the most comfortable in. I was curious to know if there was an intention in the way these two dress, or if they wanted to be perceived in a certain way based on what they were wearing.

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I do like to plan out my outfits, it makes me feel like really uncomfortable. If I'm wearing something that I don't like to be wearing in that moment. Like, it just ruins my whole day. If I'm like, I wish I was wearing something else. I really like wearing skirts. If anyone knows me, they know that I have skirts for all of the days. This one I like to because it's a mini skirt, which means you can see my thigh tattoo which I never get to show off in the winter fall months. So I'm excited to finally be able to do that. Also, these boots made me feel super powerful. I don't know it's kind of weird, being non binary and also loving to wear skirts as much because I feel like I should want to present more masculine but I feel just really good and feminine clothing. So that's why I like this outfit. Also, this user is really cool. And I get compliments on it all the time. So that's also awesome.

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Like I kind of said before, I feel a lot of pressure to dress in a way that's going to portray to people that I am queer non binary, but usually because I like wearing such like feminine clothing,

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it ends up being the opposite. But I've made my peace with that. For the most part, I just wear what I dress intuitively, I aware of why it makes me feel good in that moment. Sometimes that's not always successful, but most of the time it is. So you pretty much nailed it. Like I would say something really similarily like every day is super different.

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I dress a little bit more masculine. Again, just like I do plan my outfits I do like to portray to the world that I'm queer and non binary.

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I think that's like super important and like, it helps me also like pick up similarities and other people around me. So like, I love it when I can seem approachable to like minded and just like people who share similar things as I do. So, fashion is just such an easier opportunity and like window to present yourself as queer without like, verbally being like, Hey, I'm gay. Because like, that's uncomfortable. I don't want to have to be doing that, you know. And just, if I can, like visually spot other people who would reciprocate their interest in me that I do in them, then it's awesome, but it's just not to say that it's bad because I'm not exactly sure where I stand on it. Because I do have a really hard time saying and limiting people from their choices and like self expression and identity especially because everything is becoming so mainstream and everybody has so much access to everything.

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But it definitely does get confusing. It does and I definitely have been in positions where I'm like flirting with someone and they're like

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I'm straight. And I'm like, Cool that that's awesome. And it's just like it. It's confusing. And it makes me want to approach people less after those interactions, which is just hard to navigate. Yeah, that's kind of where this whole idea came out of. It's just because me and Rachel were saying it makes it so much harder to approach people in an environment where it's already so hard to approach people as, as queer individuals. And like, as a lesbian, myself, I am constantly so aware of like the predatory lesbian stereotype that I'm so tentative, to approach people to compliment people, even in queer spaces and queer bars,

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which people are now infiltrating, which is a whole other topic.

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But it's already so difficult to do those things because of all the pressures from society that we've been ingrained with and socialized with, that I'm fighting against. And then yeah, to have those experiences of someone being like, I'm actually straight when they're like emulating such like they're signaling with gay

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clothing.

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And then it does, it discourages you from doing it again. And it's already something that first of all, I rarely ever do. And it does corral queer people into online dating and stuff like that, which is a great outlet. But it's also super limiting. Like, that's not necessarily how I want to make all my connections through Tinder. Like, that's not ideal for me. I love to talk with people and to get to know people and to go out and have fun.

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And then yeah, to first of all, work up the courage to talk to them, and work through the anxieties of of what are they going to think of me? Am I being predatory? All these things? And then also, like, I wake up the next morning with like, such an existential dread. I'm like, do they want that attention from me? Even if they work where I'm like, Did I ask them specifically all these things?

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So I think that's like a really real thing that needs addressing when when we're talking about straight people, using queer fashion as as inspiration. Queer fashion is known to be kind of out there and experimental. The main point of queer fashion is that a challenge of societal norms and it's different, a quote taken from them magazine in an article released on October 11, of 2021, titled What is queer fashion anyway, the author writes, the bottom line is that queer fashion exists both an intention and aesthetic, both provided by designer or were are both. This queerness however, goes deeper than trends or archetypes, it is intersectional to other identities, and above all, carries the same multiplicity that makes fashion such an essential tool for expression. There is no single identifiable queer code or aesthetic for fashion, because it like queerness contains a myriad of meetings and offers different readings to whoever carries or observes when something or someone is different. It's almost always met with judgment. So I wanted to know what their least favorite assumption of queer fashion was.

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Kind of like 20 years ago, probably like the way to fight social gender norms was like to go complete opposite. But like now, it's kind of like open where it's like, that doesn't need to happen to, like, be presenting the queer with your fashion, like, you know, where to like escape, like, the male gaze. Yeah, everything that queer people do, ever is a form of resistance. And I think that very much includes fashion. So yeah, my least favorite assumption is like, if people don't find my like style appealing, then chances are like, you're probably not my targeted audience.

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And they might not think and like if I have things that like, might not, like, quote, unquote, like, go together that it's like a mistake, or I just, like, don't care about what I'm wearing. Or like, just because I dress super comfortably. Or just like loose clothes, just like for like, masculine figure that it's just like, oh, they just love being comfortable when I actually have planned out my outfit, and it's like, there for a reason. And I wake up and I like, probably go through like four or five outfits every morning just being like, yeah, okay, like, I feel good in this one. This one's good. I look. Yeah. Yeah, my least favorite by far is the idea that queer people and gay fashion can ever be straight passing. Like, it's something that I deal with on a daily basis, just based on what I wear. And I think it's like a common worry. And a joke for sure. But also a joke born out of like, very real feelings is that like, when you go out in like, quote, unquote, like regular looking clothes, and you're like, straight passing, no one's gonna know you're gay. If you're gay and you're wearing clothes, you are participating in queer fashion. So I think that that assumption of like being straight passing is, like, super harmful and my least favorite thing ever. That's an awesome

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point

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through. Yeah, and I think that a huge thing that we should recognize before moving forward in this conversation is that me and Rachel are both white white and the way that we are able to express ourselves as queer people without the fear of violence is something that's very unique to being a white queer person to which so much of the broader queer experience is boiled down to, and like,

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singled out as as being a white experience in in like media. So like, that's how it's socialized to us. I'm explaining this poorly, but

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and a barrier for a lot of people who are people of color, and queer or trans and queer

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is like, they don't want to go and be recognized as gay, because that opens up such a huge door to violence for them, which is something that I am super privileged to not have to worry about when I talk about my fashion and when I talk about leaving the house, so it's great for us to be able to feel confident and happy leaving the house looking gay. If you don't feel that way, if you don't want to feel that way, that is not taking away of your queerness whatsoever. It is what you're doing to protect yourself in that moment. So

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not everyone has the privilege to safely explore their sexuality and gender, to dress queer and to appear visibly different is not always met with kindness. For both Rachel Lindsay, they grew up in places with practically no queer community.

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I'm from Nova Scotia from Wolfville area, if you know where that is, like town of like 4000 people predominantly very white, very much I had, like, in my high school, I think there was one openly queer person and I don't even think they were I think it was very much subscribed onto them. They are and they're open about it now. But, um,

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but definitely a lot of unwanted negative attention. And, um, I had a big straight phase.

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Just because it's just like, an like, yeah, coming here moving here two years ago, I've I wouldn't say changed so much I've just become, I've come into a place where it's safer for one to explore my sexuality and my gender. And I've been met with a lot more vocabulary to express it. And ideas and other people who I can kind of like see myself in and it's just like, opened, opened it up and just like a lot more comfortable. Yeah, same vibe for me. I think me and Rachel talk about this a lot just about how homophobic our towns were because small town vibes. But I'm from the mainland from like a small town called Maple Ridge. And like, not really small incisor population, but in mindset, um, like we still very much have like the Confederate flag license plates, and all that stuff, the defacing of the one bride sidewalk they put in town. So I'm sure it's a little bit better now. But when I was going to high school, even like three years ago, it

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was very much not a thing to be gay each year had like one white man that was like the designated gay person for that grade, even if he wasn't gay. Like they just picked one guy that didn't present masculine enough for them. And he was the gay person.

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So much of my energy and identity in high school was denying allegations that I was gay based on what I was wearing, what I was saying,

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to a point where I did like, fully flip my style to completely conform to what everyone else around me was wearing and saying and doing because I was so afraid of those labels, because they were used on me all the time, like, and I wasn't even a person that was dressing entirely provocatively, like it was just like if I wore baggy jeans one day, or like literally applied, I would be titled A lesbian, and it was used derogatorily against me.

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So so much of what I wore in high school was just fueling myself from those labels. And I was also like, a bunch of internalized homophobia went into that because I was so so so afraid of being called those things because they were true. And I wasn't ready to face that yet. And it's really dub that that was that that was something that was forced upon me when I wasn't ready to talk about it yet.

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So I think in that way, like Victoria is so much different, and also just coming here voluntarily, when I'm much older,

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has been freeing but yeah, exploring my sexuality and my sexual identity through what I'm wearing.

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was not something that

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I was allowed to do until I moved to Victoria.

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And even in a place like this, you do still face a lot of a lot of unwelcome attention for dressing gay, but it's a lot less from where I was. And I don't know if I would have explored who I am to this extent to this truth isn't if I didn't move here. So for me, Victoria is a place of liberation.

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Once again, I'm very privileged in saying that because it is a insanely white town, that a lot of queer people of color would not feel comfortable exploring their identity in, because it is so so so white. So I've seen my identity and like, who I am and how I want to dress mirrored here a lot, because there are a lot of people that I represent and represent me, surrounding me. That's not the case for everyone. But that's my experience with it. I wouldn't have explored my identity to this extent, if I hadn't moved away from home. I even noticed I went home in August,

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this summer. And while I was there, I was like, whoa, this isn't me. I don't love the way that I'm acting right now, too. And it's not even because going back like I was met with inherently like homophobic or like, any pushback, which like, yeah, a little bit, but that's not like, why it was just like, I just genuinely didn't like looking around. I didn't see any like, I don't know, I just like wasn't even like a possibility that it existed. And therefore, like, I didn't exist there as that version of myself. But then I realized after coming here, I was like, oh, it's because

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like, I didn't even think that non binary was a possibility. I didn't know what it was. I didn't I knew kind of concepts. And I knew that like, but and same with even like, being gay. I was like, Oh, that that's an option. Like, that's me, you know. So I think that's really interesting. Yeah, like what you said about it, not existing. Like it didn't exist, gay didn't exist. And it wasn't talked about, there was no space to talk about being gay, there was no space to be gay. So there was no space for me.

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This is the reality for many in the LGBTQ plus community, which is why it can be frustrating to see queer style being co opted by individuals who are not aware of the history of the prejudice or being associated with appearing queer. So I asked him for the thoughts on why queer style is trendy now and what it means for non queer people to follow these trends.

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Because it's cool, because we're cool. And we're here. And just like unapologetic, I suppose. I love honestly kind of the absurdity of it. I think that's been a huge trend lately

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on Tik Tok, and like Instagram and stuff is just like queer people putting like random Can I swear is that allowed Creole but I'm like a random on their bodies. That might be clothing, it might not be clothing, like cutting it all up. And I think that it just is really mirroring how we're viewing our own sexuality and our own identity, just kind of like a mess of stuff that fits or doesn't fit and needs to be altered. And just styling it in a way that makes us feel happy and good. And I think that's like, really been a marching in queer fashion lately, and I really enjoy seeing it. There's definitely no better feeling than like when you're about to leave the house. And you're like, I like gays. Right now. Yeah, it's just like, super great feeling.

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And again, yeah, just like the ability to express yourself is super awesome. And just like, there's so many different styles within kind of like a campy style also.

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And it's just like, awesome. It's like, way more appealing for me to like, look at it myself. And also just like in public and around, I'm like, Oh, that's cool. I like that piece that's really interesting. And like, people get creative with it. And a lot of the time like, end up making their own pieces, and like getting really into that. And by that it's just like an extension of themselves. And I really, I appreciate that. Yeah, the sense of identity, I think is huge with queer fashion, and how we relate to each other as we're able to, like when a gay person compliments me on my outfit, it's like, so rewarding.

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And I feel like we just derive a lot of community from that. I think that it might be

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like under the facade of being like liberatory. And like now there's an acceptance of queer lifestyles and queer people are allowed to go out and whatever they want, and people are starting to recognize that queer people are actually like, super cool and have a lot of great style devices that they like to use. But in the broader sense of it, isn't it a form of queer ratio, like, Isn't it like, taking something that makes us distinctively queer and appropriating it to not mean that anymore and in that way, it's it's a

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racing,

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what we used to use to signal to one another and to form that community.

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So maybe that's an unintentional consequence, maybe not. It's hard to like, tell people not to do something, especially when like, it is so subjective and fashion is a like, like identity, like, you know, it helps to form your place in your space, right? I fully agree that it's intentions that matter to because me and a straight person can be wearing the exact same thing. And I can be wearing it. Like I said, straight passing, I hate the idea, we can be wearing the exact same thing and I can be gay and they cannot be game for me. It's gay fashion. And for them, it's not gay fashion. So there's definitely like super subjective lines. There. The amount of times that I've heard oh my god, I look like, I look so gay today. Or I look like a dyke today.

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From straight people, and it was also used against me in high school, like I would show up to the high school like in applied this, I wasn't out in high school just as a backstory.

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And people were like, You look like a dyke, you look like a lesbian.

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All these things like weaponizing, the use of the word and now the same people are going out, wearing the exact same stuff I was wearing in high school, and it's become cool. It's become like a fashion statement for stuff that I was bullied for wearing. So I feel like that part of it is something that bothers me. So it's totally intentions. And yeah, you're right, locating yourself and just being aware of, of what you're wearing, and how it affects people and what it means for you. And honestly, maybe those people that are wearing gay styles, gay fashions, that is that their way of exploring their sexual identity, which is something that I never want to discourage. So there is it's so so so subjective.

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Well, definitely, as a world, we're way more connected. And we can see so many other people and all. And we have, like a sense of community with people who aren't necessarily in our direct space. And by that things like travel, and also with just social movements in general. Yeah, I totally think it's like a wider acceptance of queer lifestyles in general, for sure, that have allowed clickable the space to step forward and even represent their styles without fear of violence, which before wasn't really an option.

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On an individual level, I also, it is the efforts of all the queer activists and queer people that came before us that fought for our rights to be able to go outside and what we like to wear what makes us happy and comfortable and not have to worry about that violence as much.

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But yeah, if you want to do the work, and like unpacking yourself and your beliefs and your outlook on your surroundings, then yeah, by all means, like explore that, be conscious and aware of like, potential harm that you might be doing, or

28:09
Yeah, and just again, it comes back to intentions. If you're wanting to be like, educate yourself, then I think it makes

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the those who are queer and identify as so more open to it. That's kind of the main thing is like, educate yourself, please you the what you're wearing and how you're presenting yourself does not exist in a vacuum. And just because you don't have to think about it doesn't mean that we haven't had to think about it.

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And doesn't mean that certain people have to think about it to an extent words, their safety and well being that's going to be determined by what they're wearing.

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So I think that yeah, if you want to do the work, educate yourself, I'd be happy to answer questions about my experience, which is going to be very limited because most of my identity is very much structured around privilege.

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I suggest that everyone take a gender studies class, I think that it should be a requirement upon entering university

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just to

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realize what how your actions affect other demographics of people. And as long as you're aware of that, and you're not causing harm to people, I don't really care what anyone does, honestly, like, at all I will refer to you however you want, I will talk to you, I will interact with you, as long as you are not harming anyone and as long as you are aware of the impact your actions have.

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The concept of safe spaces is an important theme in this episode. Defined by Merriam Webster, a safe space is intended to be free of bias, conflict criticism, or potentially threatening actions, ideas or conversations. Gay and Lesbian bars were created to provide a meeting place for LGBTQ plus people. However, while the safe space

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cysts were intentionally created for certain demographics, these boundaries aren't always followed. I asked them how they felt about other groups entering their safe spaces.

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Oh my God, just the amount of times where you've been out at gay bars and group of straight women. And like, these are all instances where it's been confirmed, and they've been with like one of their gay friends and stuff like that. We're not just assuming people's sexualities based on what's happening, it was like confirmed instances of being straight. And which is super harmful to me, like that's our safe space. And then to, like, bring people who who were trying to get away from into that space is not cool. For me, I think my quarrels with it is

30:53
I do think that there are instances that though, individuals, straight individuals are welcome into those spaces. But

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again, to be mindful of their actions while in those spaces, and also, it's also the language outside of those spaces. I'll be like, I've heard a lot of friends. Just like talk about gay bars downtown, and how like, oh, there's so much cuter than the straight bars, oh, there's so much cooler than the straight bars.

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Let's go there, I want to go there. And it's kind of like, that's not the point. It's, they're not there for commodity. They're there as a safe space. And it just by proxy just so happens that just the space is something that appeals to them. But in like a harmful way. That's such a good point. Like what happened to me sitting the library like a few weeks ago, and it was just a group of

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a group of people talking about friends of Dorothy's. And just like, they were like, Oh, my gosh, have you ever heard of this, like, it's so cute, like pulling up pictures and stuff, they're like, Oh, my God, it's like, it's like a gay bar. That's so cute.

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And like, they're like, Oh, my God has pictures of like, RuPaul in it, there's drag queens here, and stuff like that. And I'm not here to assume that their sexuality was straight, just based on what they were saying and how they were talking about it. That's the vibe that I got from them. And if they weren't, I would seriously encourage them to unpack how they talk about things that they identify with. Um, but in that sense, it just made me feel like I was a commodity in that sense. And I feel like that is very much being mirrored with the way people are talking about queer fashion. Like, the way that people talk about queer spaces in queer fashion is the same, it's commodified.

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And it's seen as like cute and trendy, like, my sexuality isn't a trend, my identity isn't a trend.

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Just because you can take it on and off. Just because you can step into and out of these spaces doesn't mean that everyone can, there are consequences that come along with the cute clothes and the cute bars that aren't so cute. And when you're talking about in that way, it's completely ignorant of that side of the experience.

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That being said, I don't know if I necessarily agree that there are reasons that straight people should be in gay bars, you have spaces that are safe for you already. But I know there's a lot of nuance in that around women going into bars with super creepy dudes. And like, I understand that you want to get away from that too. And I want to be supportive of that. So again, super nuanced topic. And I'm not sure where I stand on it right now I need to do a bit more thinking.

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But if you are a street person in those spaces, again, it's all about intentions. And it's all about how you've educated yourself, and how you are placing yourself in those spaces. Even with queer spaces. A lot of queer spaces are still very much predominantly queer spaces for men white, like gay, white gay men, which is problematic in itself, which is great. I'm so happy that they have those spaces. But it's hard to find spaces that are other demographics and the queer community. Yeah, I know, it's funny that we're talking about this. And I'm like, it's so hard to approach, you know, lesbians and queer people in bars, because I don't know if they're actually queer. Where are they? When in reality, I'm not seeing that many

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going to these, like, specifically gay bars, too. And I'm only seeing like, gay men. It just we hit on our friend. Yeah, but, you know, and also talking about safe spaces. I will mention that these are safe spaces for us, again, white queers. So, you know, we face a little bit of pushback from larger society and homophobia and misogyny in that way. But there's also no safe spaces outside of these places for like bipoc queer people.

35:00
because for a lot of them, even if you're in a queer space, that's still not a safe space, right? So I, again, just always drawing attention back to the fact that this is all information coming from, from white queer people, which is not the universal experience, even though it's been painted as the universal experience, well said, well said, this is a super important point that they brought up. And to be honest, even being a person of color myself. Sometimes I don't even fully realize the significant lack of safe spaces for bipoc individuals, especially queer bipoc individuals, just because we're so used to not having any of these spaces made for us. So I wanted to make sure that I included bipoc queer voices into this discussion. I interviewed no Kaufmann, an African American born Canadian who recently graduated from UVic and is now working in the fashion industry in Vancouver. I find it interesting that like celebrities like Carrie Stiles, or white celebrities that like are queer to an extent are getting all this notoriety for like being fair with their fashion wearing certain things where as like bipoc people have been doing it for such a long time and have not achieved that wide acclaim like Harry Styles is like, known as this fashion icon and like even straight people very much idolized him, but it's like bipoc people have been doing it forever. They've been doing it well forever to like they've been doing it a really good job, but they don't receive a half as much notoriety. Stay tuned to part two of this episode to listen to my interview with Noah and more thoughts from Rachel and Lindsay.

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This episode was produced by Zerah Hino with help from Nicola watts, thank you to our guests Lindsey skeleton and Rachel Lee. This program would not have been possible without the support of the University of Victoria and the work study program. Inter track produced by XIA Mahina if you like what you heard, check out other episodes of you in the ring and subscribe rate and review wherever you get your podcasts.

36:57
Well, it's mullet, mullet mullet so many wallets cup jeans of like Oh, I hope they know. I think it was very popular topic and like the bike community. Oh cup jeans and then also like, stereotypical lesbians with their karabiners on their jeans. Because I mean, yeah.

37:21
Granola lesbians. Yeah. Everyone wearing like their fleeces. They're about to go in. Sorry. Well, wait, that's sorry.

37:32
Um, yeah, they're karabiners and like beanies beanies everywhere be I'm looking at one right now tiny a hat right here. Um, so many of those which you know, what is honestly a lug lesbians co opted in from like outdoorsy hikers in the first place. So can't really claim that one but yeah, that's definitely the style for sure. Is is mullet gay and granola gay. Yeah, for sure around here.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai